1969 Mustang Vin
#1
Looking into buying a '69 Coupe for $1,750. The DMV officer came out to check the vin but said the plate on the dash appeared to be tampered with. The door tag, body tag and title match the vin on the dash. The officer said that he could not clear the title change (Florida title is currently open from this guys dealership) until we could produce the vin under the fender (car is still at sellers house and we had no tools). He left and we came back later with the owner and we removed both fenders. The only numbers we found were up front on the driver's side fender apron. The code was *9T11F111111*, which does not appear to be an active vin, decoding as:

Year: 9 1969 
Plant: T Metuchen, NJ 
Body Series: 11 code not found (Four Door Falcon Code)
Engine: F 302 2v V8 
Unit: 111111 111111 

The vin on the dash is 9T01F14****:

Year: 9 1969 
Plant: T Metuchen, NJ 
Body Series: 01 2 Door Hardtop 
Engine: F 302 2v V8 
Unit: 14**** 14****

Is there a possibility of the fender apron being replaced and that number being that of an aftermarket part, or any other suggestion? The car was a drag car so the engine and trans are not original. The vin tag looks legit to me because you can see the faint image of the Ford oval and black outline around the tag. What kind of mess have I gotten myself into?


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#2
The second picture where the T is sort of haloed definitly looks buggered. it should be flat and clean like the rest of the letters and numbers. Is that the one they say looks altered?  If so I can see why.
Being as the car was a drag car, God only knows who changed, repaired, or covered over what. So the strange looking vin could be something like your thinking. Wish I could be more help. All I can say is "Caveat Emptor" or let the Buyer Beware!

Be Careful. 

JTS
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#3
(05-11-2018, 02:41 AM)JTS71 Mach1 Wrote: The second picture where the T is sort of haloed definitly looks buggered. it should be flat and clean like the rest of the letters and numbers. Is that the one they say looks altered?  If so I can see why.
Being as the car was a drag car, God only knows who changed, repaired, or covered over what. So the strange looking vin could be something like your thinking. Wish I could be more help. All I can say is "Caveat Emptor" or let the Buyer Beware!

Be Careful. 

JTS

The VIN that the DMV officer was questioning was the tag on the dash and that's why he wanted to check the fender apron. That apron seemed to have been replaced by an aftermarket part of taken off of a 1969 TFalcon by its code. The officer said that that VIN with all the 1's was not valid and to check again. There are no other stampings on these aprons beside the Month, Day and shift stampings on the body panels.
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#4
I'd ignore the tag on the inner fender.  Mine doesn't match since I had to replace those during the restoration and used one from a basic 1969 Fastback I had.  Plus, I'm not certain the stamping on the inner fender was ever the full vin.

I see on the dash vin tag the last 5 or so digits are blacked out.  Did you do that with the picture or is that what the officer is referring to?  If you did that only for the picture, then what is the issue?

I went through that myself since in California if a car hasn't been registered or at least registered as non-op for 5 years it gets removed the DMV's records.  So I had to have an officer verify the vehicle was not stolen and fill out a form from DMV.  We only used the vin on the dash.

The "T" in the vin refers to the assembly plant.  T was the New Jersey assembly plant.  So the inner fender also came from the same assembly plant as your car.  I suspect it was never replaced.  You'd have to look close at the spot welds, ect. to determine that.
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#5
(05-11-2018, 06:12 AM)1969_Mach1 Wrote: I'd ignore the tag on the inner fender.  Mine doesn't match since I had to replace those during the restoration and used one from a basic 1969 Fastback I had.  Plus, I'm not certain the stamping on the inner fender was ever the full vin.

I see on the dash vin tag the last 5 or so digits are blacked out.  Did you do that with the picture or is that what the officer is referring to?  If you did that only for the picture, then what is the issue?

I went through that myself since in California if a car hasn't been registered or at least registered as non-op for 5 years it gets removed the DMV's records.  So I had to have an officer verify the vehicle was not stolen and fill out a form from DMV.  We only used the vin on the dash.

The "T" in the vin refers to the assembly plant.  T was the New Jersey assembly plant.  So the inner fender also came from the same assembly plant as your car.  I suspect it was never replaced.  You'd have to look close at the spot welds, ect. to determine that.

I just inked it out on the computer I guess just for privacy reasons. The last digits are 2391. The officer did not give a reason on why he thought the tag was phony. Maybe because the number were punched inward instead of being raised or because the letters were not perfectly in-lin? Who knows?
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#6
I know this doesn't help the situation, but, from what I can see, the vin tag looks normal.  The characters on these were not embossed (raised) like they are on today's vehicles.  And they are not perfect like todays vin tags.  Good luck, you will probably need a different officer to look at it.  Does it still have the round head pop-rivets attaching it to the car body?  That part is a little critical. 

Another thought is to get a Marti Report from Marti Auto Works.  They are the only place authorized by Ford (whatever that means) and have the original Ford documents for these cars.  They only need the vin number and you will get a report with all the vehicle specs as it was built by Ford.  It takes several weeks.  But that is a little more evidence verifying the car.  Although it's not a legal document.

When I went through that.  I only needed a sales receipt to show proof to DMV that I purchased the car.  They in turn gave me a form for the officer to fill out.  It was a few hoops to jump through.  But I had no issues.
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#7
(05-11-2018, 07:52 AM)1969_Mach1 Wrote: I know this doesn't help the situation, but, from what I can see, the vin tag looks normal.  The characters on these were not embossed (raised) like they are on today's vehicles.  And they are not perfect like todays vin tags.  Good luck, you will probably need a different officer to look at it.  Does it still have the round head pop-rivets attaching it to the car body?  That part is a little critical. 

Another thought is to get a Marti Report from Marti Auto Works.  They are the only place authorized by Ford (whatever that means) and have the original Ford documents for these cars.  They only need the vin number and you will get a report with all the vehicle specs as it was built by Ford.  It takes several weeks.  But that is a little more evidence verifying the car.  Although it's not a legal document.

When I went through that.  I only needed a sales receipt to show proof to DMV that I purchased the car.  They in turn gave me a form for the officer to fill out.  It was a few hoops to jump through.  But I had no issues.

All rivets are intact and appear to be in original condition. I have a strong feeling that the officer is not familiar with the year of vehicle. Still have not located another vin. The VIN on the door (23L) says the car was made November 23, 1968. The stamp on the sheet metal (12 5 D2 - 12 13 D3) Suggest that the car was made after Decmber 13 on the 3rd Shift if I am reading it correctly. Is the VIN made before production begins or after the car is completed?


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