Fuel Issue
#1
Good evening. My daughter and I had just left the house in our 69 Mach 1 428 CJ. On the way to a car show of all things...All was well until about 10 miles down the road. Car stalled, had to pull it to curb. Would try and try to turn over, not getting fuel. Would only stay alive with quick rapid depression of accelerator. Had towed back to house. need to consider fuel filter, fuel pump, vapor lock etc. I am a newbie, wanting to start with fuel filter, but want to be sure exactly where it is on the engine. Does someone have a photo to share locating fuel filter? Any other thoughts appreciated.
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#2
If it's supposed to be an "original or original restored" car the fuel is typically:
1) Inside the fuel inlet of the carb.
2) If not it might be external and threaded in to the carb inlet.

Otherwise:
3) If not in any of the above locations, a previous might have installed a fuel filter in the fuel line between the fuel pump and the carb.
4) Lastly, it's possible a previous owner installed an earlier style fuel pump with an integral canister type fuel filter.  That is an obvious fairly large cannister on the bottom side of the fuel pump.

If the fuel filter ends up being inside the carb inlet, it should have a light (weak) override spring behind it. So if the filter plugs the spring will allow the fuel pressure to move the filter and bypass it so the carb still gets fuel.

There is also a stock screen type filter inside the tank.  The fuel gauge sending unit needs to be removed to get to it.  Drain the fuel from the tank first.

If a previous owner installed a simple parts store filter between the tank and pump, it's not supposed to be there.  Mechanical fuel pumps cannot pull fuel through a filter very well.  Plus, I'd seriously wonder if the tank is clean.  If you want a filter between the tank and pump it should be a 100 micron filter so it flows easily and merely stops large particles from getting to the fuel pump.  But, that is what the factory screen filter inside the tank does so no need for a second unless the tank is dirty inside or the factory screen is missing.  Also, you can only find 100 micron fuel filters in a performance type from places like Summit Racing or Jegs and still need the finer (40 micron) filter somewhere between the pump and carb.

You mentioned possible vapor lock.  How hot was the ambient temp when the engine stopped running?  How hot was the engine?  That's a big motor in a small engine compartment, cooling is always an issue.

Stock type fuel pumps do not fail very often but, don't rule it out.  Also check the oil to be certain the fuel pump did leak fuel into the oil.  That is one way (although rare) that they fail.
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#3
(08-31-2021, 01:58 AM)1969_Mach1 Wrote: If it's supposed to be an "original or original restored" car the fuel is typically:
1) Inside the fuel inlet of the carb.
2) If not it might be external and threaded in to the carb inlet.

Otherwise:
3) If not in any of the above locations, a previous might have installed a fuel filter in the fuel line between the fuel pump and the carb.
4) Lastly, it's possible a previous owner installed an earlier style fuel pump with an integral canister type fuel filter.  That is an obvious fairly large cannister on the bottom side of the fuel pump.

If the fuel filter ends up being inside the carb inlet, it should have a light (weak) override spring behind it. So if the filter plugs the spring will allow the fuel pressure to move the filter and bypass it so the carb still gets fuel.

There is also a stock screen type filter inside the tank.  The fuel gauge sending unit needs to be removed to get to it.  Drain the fuel from the tank first.

If a previous owner installed a simple parts store filter between the tank and pump, it's not supposed to be there.  Mechanical fuel pumps cannot pull fuel through a filter very well.  Plus, I'd seriously wonder if the tank is clean.  If you want a filter between the tank and pump it should be a 100 micron filter so it flows easily and merely stops large particles from getting to the fuel pump.  But, that is what the factory screen filter inside the tank does so no need for a second unless the tank is dirty inside or the factory screen is missing.  Also, you can only find 100 micron fuel filters in a performance type from places like Summit Racing or Jegs and still need the finer (40 micron) filter somewhere between the pump and carb.

You mentioned possible vapor lock.  How hot was the ambient temp when the engine stopped running?  How hot was the engine?  That's a big motor in a small engine compartment, cooling is always an issue.

Stock type fuel pumps do not fail very often but, don't rule it out.  Also check the oil to be certain the fuel pump did leak fuel into the oil.  That is one way (although rare) that they fail.

Thanks for the great response. I'll continue to investigate
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#4
UPDATE:

Local Mach 1 Mustang pro called me, the car has been in his shop for about a week. He told me car is getting fuel. Its a timing chain issue. So he needs to get in there and check timing chain and tensioners etc. He is worried it may have jumped some teeth or its an old chain and lost teeth. Apparently original ones were cheaply made to keep noise down. Problem is as you guys probably know can potentially cause valve damage. I'll let you know what he finds out.

Thanks
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#5
How old is this guy? I'm not 100% sure, but I would think a 69 428 CJ would be a performance motor, and have a steel gear set for the timing chain. Not the cheaper/ quieter nylon toothed gear. But who knows what someone else might have installed? As far as tensioners. There Are None! Tensioners are something that has come along over the last 15 or 20 years. But 52 years ago. Not in an American V8. Thus why I asked how old a guy he is. Cause if he' thinks it has tensioners??? he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, and you need to run away quickly! Just My Thoughts. 

JTS
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#6
Hold on a minute!

Something does not sound right from your first diagnosis of "Would only stay alive with quick rapid depression of accelerator" in the first post to the mention of the non-existent tensioner.

If it had indeed jumped a tooth it would not run, and NO it should not "potentially cause valve damage".  Those issues come on close tolerance motors many years latter.

Proceed with caution!
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#7
(10-09-2021, 03:39 PM)Steven Harris Wrote: Hold on a minute!

Something does not sound right from your first diagnosis of "Would only stay alive with quick rapid depression of accelerator" in the first post to the mention of the non-existent tensioner.

If it had indeed jumped a tooth it would not run, and NO it should not "potentially cause valve damage".  Those issues come on close tolerance motors many years latter.

Proceed with caution!
Thanks Steven

It turns out the gear sprocket of the timing belt had sheared off the from of the motor. Whomever rebuilt the engine did not use a locking washer to hold in on there appropriately. There was no valve damage although I was told this was a possibility. See photos.

Thanks for all the help with this.


Attached Files Image(s)
       
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#8
(11-10-2021, 07:44 AM)rads410 Wrote:
(10-09-2021, 03:39 PM)Steven Harris Wrote: Hold on a minute!

Something does not sound right from your first diagnosis of "Would only stay alive with quick rapid depression of accelerator" in the first post to the mention of the non-existent tensioner.

If it had indeed jumped a tooth it would not run, and NO it should not "potentially cause valve damage".  Those issues come on close tolerance motors many years latter.

Proceed with caution!
Thanks Steven

It turns out the gear sprocket of the timing belt had sheared off the from of the motor. Whomever rebuilt the engine did not use a locking washer to hold in on there appropriately. There was no valve damage although I was told this was a possibility. See photos.

Thanks for all the help with this.

Back home where she belongs running great


Attached Files Image(s)
   
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#9
(10-06-2021, 01:04 PM)JTS71 Mach1 Wrote: How old is this guy? I'm not 100% sure, but I would think a 69 428 CJ would be a performance motor, and have a steel gear set for the timing chain. Not the cheaper/ quieter nylon toothed gear. But who knows what someone else might have installed? As far as tensioners. There Are None! Tensioners are something that has come along over the last 15 or 20 years. But 52 years ago. Not in an American V8. Thus why I asked how old a guy he is. Cause if he' thinks it has tensioners??? he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, and you need to run away quickly! Just My Thoughts. 

JTS
You were right JTS71. There are no tensioners. And it does have a steel gear set. See follow up post. Thanks for the help!
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#10
Wow talk about Lucky!  Pray  That could have been complete destruction of the engine. I would change the oil, and filter after a few hundred miles. As all that metal form the inside of the front cover. Had to go somewhere, I assume the shop changed the oil when  they did the repair?  Huh  If not it needs to be done immediately!!!! Then changed again in a few hundred miles. You dodged the bullet the first time. An second oil change is cheap insurance, compared to a set of scored rod bearings. 

Hope it helps 

JTS
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