My Newest Project - My Youngest Child

[Steven Harris]

Talk about resurrecting the dead!

No not me - this post!  Wow - does time fly or am I too buried?

So, not much has happened to the 65.  I did bring the driver's fender and hood down to Mexico to work on but got "caught" crossing my used car parts into Mexico and had to pay a fine U.S. $40.00. Oh well.

But that was like over a year ago!  And I still haven't gotten them done.  

AND I am still working on the 1994  5.0 that I have for the car.  BUT it now looks like that it will be going into the latest acquisition - a 1968 coupe (6 cylinder, automatic) but minus the drivetrain.

Anyway - that's another story - another post.

But I do have a question.  It seems that my harmonic balance pulley does not line up with my water pump and alternator pulley.  The timing cover was changed out to a normal rotation, fuel pump boss cover and the water pump to a normal rotation pump.  I believe I might know the answer but how to I resolve my issues.

I also changed the timing chain and I believe I used a double roller chain.  Is that what has moved my harmonic balancer out (about 3/8")?  Now what do I do?  Short of buying a new harmonic balancer if that is even a possibility, can I "shorten" the snout on my current one allowing it to push back into the cover like it should?

Or have I missed the obvious - I do that a lot!

[Rare Pony]

I can't answer your question, but glad to see your are back and still turning wrenches!

[JTS71 Mach1]

Steven the double roller chain, and gears shouldn't have caused any issues as they are supposed to be the same thickness as the original HiVo chain and sprockets, or should be anyway. Maybe you got some of those cheap Mexican, I mean Chinese parts. LOL! I'm not sure, but I believe there might be some water pumps with a different height? and I do know there were different pulleys of varying depths so seek and find may be in order. One strange thing I've seen happen is the key is too long in the slot and hold the balancer out some. kind of unusual but as old as it is who knows who did what to it. Great to here you're still with us. 

JTS

[Steven Harris]

I pulled the balancer off and did some measuring but I have not resolved the issue - yet.

I also tried to start the motor on the bench - I have spark, I have fuel - I have backfiring through the carburetor and even through the exhaust but no run.

The motor was out of a 1994 F-150 so it was EFI and so I used the 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 sequence but who knows!  I tried to read the code on the block but it is not at all like it's U.S. counterparts.  Maybe I am suppose to use the old 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8 sequence.

Beats me and I ran out of time.

I'll give it another go another day.

Still puzzled by the misalignment issue.  The water pump and the alternator pulleys line up.

Thanks.

[JTS71 Mach1]

Yeah Ford has both pattern cams, and there is no right or wrong. It just depends on what cam you have. I ran across this a long time ago, with a 351 Windsor that came out of a 69 Country Squire Wagon. (remember them) I put it in a 1970 Maverick, and when I finally got it running, after numerous attempts. It was sitting there running on 4 cylinders???? I had wired it according to my Chilton manual for the 351W, and it only ran on 4 cylinders, every other cylinder??? So I took the other 4 wires and moved them around the cap until that cylinder picked up and ran. When all 4 wires were in, it ran just like it was supposed to. The firing order was the same as a 351C which was not supposed to be????? I never did figure out why it had a 351C firing order? So obviously Ford was futchin around with firing orders way back in "69" also. But I didn't care cause it went like stink! LOL!

JTS

[Steven Harris]

I guess that my next attempt will be to pull a valve cover and check to see if I can determine exactly which firing order I have by the valve movement.

The old step away - think - and step back up approach.

[JTS71 Mach1]

Have you, or someone else by chance had the distributor out? If so I would make sure to confirm TDC #1 on the compression stroke, and confirm the distributor isn't 180* out? If that is correct I'd try the other firing order, just for shits and giggles. Then if all else has failed I'd pull the valve covers. LOL! Just my thoughts. 

Man I'm so glad you're still with us my friend. Thanks God. 

JTS

[Steven Harris]

Yes, well I have checked and double checked all of that BUT ..

Anyway - walk away and live to fight another day!

In the meantime the ministry van decided to take a rest yesterday so I imagine that it gets my attention now.  :)

[Steven Harris]

Sweet Success!

Turns out that it has the carburetor timing sequence.

I bought the motor from a "friend" here in Mexico (over ten years ago) and heard it run in a 1994 F-150 with EFI.  Did it have a roller cam - that's a good question!  Too many years have passed since I had it down that far (no rebuild - just head gaskets on up).

Now to figure out my mis-alignment issue with the pulleys.

[Steven Harris]

So - I got to thinking that since the timing order was for the old school 302 and not the EFI 302 that perhaps I had other issues, namely an imbalance.

I had purchased a 50 oz. flywheel "assuming" that I had a newer EFI (1994) motor.  BUT - IF - it has the older 302 timing sequence then perhaps I should have a 28 oz. flywheel.  I dug out the flex plate that came with my motor and it is an "E0SP-AA" or a 1980 dated part.  Technically the 50 oz. 5.0 motors began in 1981 (according to what I read) but this flex plate is indeed a 50 oz. 

To make sure I removed the harmonic balancer and took a look at it's number (I wanted to remove the balancer anyway to see if I can decipher my alignment problem).  That number is E4TE-A3A  Which would translate "E" 1980's - "4" - 1984 - "T" pickup and E - engine group  So it is indeed a 50 oz. balanced motor.

So why in the world does it have the old firing order!  Beats me.

Here's another interesting bit of information.  There is a "short" (5.42" base to snout)  and a "long" (5.70") nose water pump for the SBF.  The water pump that I am using is for the early Mustang and is therefore the "short" snout.  There is a "short" and a "long" harmonic balancer - and you guessed it - mine is the long.  Thus the misalignment of the pulleys.  The early "short" measures 3.050" and the long measures 3.950"

To rectify the issue a 50 oz. balancer is sold with the short dimensions "Performance Products" part #80007 at Summit for $104.99. 

I plan to see if I can have my local machine shop "shorten" mine.  The other possibility would be to extract the hub on the snout of the water pump to match the offset of the balancer but then I would also have to space the alternator pulley.

And then it got dark and I had to come in and deal with other things so I'll tackle more on another day.

Here's hoping that you all have also had a good day!