351 4v heads, what to do, what to ask?
#1
I don't want to leave stop leak in the. Motor too long so I plan on taking the heads off, putting in a bigger cam and install torquer 4v intake I picked up at the Charlotte AutoFair last month.

What do I need to look for in a machine shop?

What all should I have done?

Dumb question is, will a machine shop know and understand me about changing to screw in studs, removing the pedastols?

Replacement valve recommendation ie. Brand, Size, finish, stem type, etc?

Springs, rate, brand?

Should I port match before taking them?

Smooth out/open up exhaust ports. They are the biggest flow issue on 72 4v heads right?

What else???????

Thanks!
Wade
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#2
Hey Wade Wow many questions!!!
Lets start with the machine shop, any long time local machine shop that does performance work should be able to handle the job. After you pick the shop, remove the heads and have them striped, cleaned and check them for cracks and straightness, then have them check the valves and valve guides, the Cleveland valve guides are not the best, but if there ok don't just replace them. I am sure there's a budget.

The Cleveland was produced for performance. The flow problems come from too much flow. Makes for a little soggy bottom end at lower rpms. Especially with and automatic. You have a 4 speed correct?

Some question you are going to get from me and the other guys. What are you using the car for? Street car, local cruise night, some car shows, maybe track days? or Driving all over the country and see some cool sights, go to mustang events ? Who is going to drive the car only You, Wife/ girl friend?

Ok a little about the valve train. Many options here. Most manufactures (Crane, Comp Cams,) offer a complete kit, cam, lifters, springs, valves, retainers, push rods, timing gear and chain, A lot depends on your budget. The stock valves may be just fine have the machine shop check them.

I would hold off on just machining off the pedestals unless you want to run a solid cam, then you have to spend a couple of hours adjusting valves when needed. There are a couple of manufactures (scorpion) that now make Cleveland 1.7 bolt on pedestal full roller rocker.
A lot depends on your budget.

When I do a Cleveland head I typically don't smooth of the intake side just any casting imperfections that could cause too much turbulence or block the incoming air fuel. Definitely smooth the exhaust side. Have you ever done this ? makes a mess and you can get into trouble fast. Recommend doing research first, watch a couple of u tube vids.

Is your stock intake aluminum? if so, Ford racing tested them years ago and said they were good to 6000 rpm. The big gains you will get from the torque 'r is its about 30 lbs lighter than the cast iron one.


If you have time read the threads Rebuild engine beter performance 2v heads. Rob is doing something similar to you and some of your questions may be answered. 69_mach 1/ Mike is very knowledgeable along with the other members.
Hope this helps regards John
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#3
John has given a good response and has covered the bases.

Talk with others about machine work and shops around you. Find some Ford die hearts and get there advice on who.

Talk horsepower and how they plan to get you to your goal.

And - keep us updated.
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#4
John,
That is great info I really appreciate the detail!!! I have a bit of a horror story from a BBC I built several years. I had a sleeve put in the block from a shop that supposedly did performance work. It took 6 months to get it back. When I built the motor it leaked in 2 cylinders (understatement!). I had brand new Edelbrock heads, head studs and good gaskets. I finally pulled the motor back down. Turned out that when they put the sleeve in they used a grinder of some sort to "level" the edge!!! One side of the cylinder had a low spot that would not seal. I ended up paying another shop to fix it!!!
I have only built Chevrolet motors so want to make sure I know what to ask and look for.

What I want is:
-Weekend cruiser
-"Maybe" a track day
-600 miles over a weekend with no cooling issues.
-Occasional traffic with no cooling issues
-Very aggressive lumpy idle.
-Tire burner!
-Don’t really care about gas mileage

What I have and like:
-I’m hoping to get out with $800 or less but have “some” wiggle room.
The bottom end seems solid. Motor was rebuilt 4 years ago but the guy ran out of money. The car never saw the street again.
-I LOVE solid lift cams!
-I don’t mind adjusting valves.
-Factory 4 speed
-3.23 gear. I plan on increasing to a 3:90
-Stock intake is cast iron 4v.
-Eventually will do a manual TKO update. I did this in my 0ld 71 Vette and it was an AMAZING difference. I bought it from Kessler in Tennessee but I think they are no longer in business.
-I may do a 429\460 swap later down the road but that is not a definate.

Thanks!
Wade
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#5
Well just to add my 2 cents worth. For $800.00 Bucks you better go the route of the 429/460. Search Craigslist etc, and find a complete car. I found a 71 Lincoln with the 365 hp. ( truly underrated) 460 and a 119,000 miles for $400.00. It took me several weeks to find it, but it was worth the wait.
An intake will set you back $2 to $3 hundred, a cam kit will be another #3 complete gasket set$100.00, and Headers will be in the $500.00 range, and That is parts alone! No mention of any kind of machine work. Unless you are very capable and use Ebay, Craigslist and scrounge alot. You have some lofty expectations for $800.00 bucks. A Man after my own heart! Good Luck JTS 71 Mach1
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#6
(05-03-2016, 05:54 AM)JTS71 Mach1 Wrote: Well just to add my 2 cents worth. For $800.00 Bucks you better go the route of the 429/460. Search Craigslist etc, and find a complete car. I found a 71 Lincoln with the 365 hp. ( truly underrated) 460 and a 119,000 miles for $400.00. It took me several weeks to find it, but it was worth the wait.
An intake will set you back $2 to $3 hundred, a cam kit will be another #3 complete gasket set$100.00, and Headers will be in the $500.00 range, and That is parts alone! No mention of any kind of machine work. Unless you are very capable and use Ebay, Craigslist and scrounge alot. You have some lofty expectations for $800.00 bucks. A Man after my own heart! Good Luck JTS 71 Mach1


I meant $800 or less in the heads only. The other stuff goes to what I am looking to do with the car. Sorry after reading my post again I can see where it was looking like I wanted to do everything for just $800. That would be nice though! LMBO! :-)
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#7
I meant $800 or less in the heads only. The other stuff goes to what I am looking to do with the car. Sorry after reading my post again I can see where it was looking like I wanted to do everything for just $800. That would be nice though! LMBO! :-)


Well then, That should be doable and money well spent as the 71 heads should be the closed chamber and highest compression stock heads out there. I had a 71 351C with the closed chamber, 4 barrel heads and about 12 to 1 compression, I didn't have any problem with detonation, even on 89 Octane fuel. Cleveland's are the Monster Engines of the world. They have more potential then anything Chevrolet ever hoped to build, At least back then, and they can still hold there own today. Several have been used in the Amsoil Engine Masters challenge, and have walked away with the top prize several times. Good Luck. JTS 71 Mach1
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#8
(05-04-2016, 01:52 AM)JTS71 Mach1 Wrote: I had a 71 351C with the closed chamber, 4 barrel heads and about 12 to 1 compression, I didn't have any problem with detonation, even on 89 Octane fuel. JTS 71 Mach1

I ran a 70 351 C with the closed chamber heads with the same 12 to 1 compression, 89 octane and no detonation either.

They were meant to run!
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#9
Hey Wade. Mr Steve had a great idea. Head to the local cruise night or show and find the ford guys. They will know a good machine shop for sure. I hang with a local mustang club I found on face book (I know) but there are a no drama club and I am the old guy with the cool old mach1. I always know were and when a car show/cruise is.

Then take the heads off, have them checked then Go from there.
I would still recommend a hyd. cam. The cams and parts have changed a lot with technology and you can get that lumpy fire breathing dragon you want with a good reliable valve train, and save money.

Use that torque 'r and what carb are you thinking of ? You can gain 40 hp with a Holly, if you are running a autolite.

AS for cooling you have an ac car so you have the bigger radiator. Just make sure it is clean and clear. Recommend a 180 deg thermostat and a good 6 blade fan with clutch. should be good. If the budget allows a aluminum 3 row rad. would be best.

If the new trans is coming late than sooner maybe consider 3.50 rear. Just a better high way gear, and may keep you out of the exhaust drone area , so you can here the radio, You will still be able to spin the tires until you decide to stop.

Hope this helps cheers John

ps that's my next build. I have a 460 30 over block assemble and I am saving for a set for Jon Kaase boss 429 heads and intake. Then I will find me a 72/73 conv. mustang. http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/8...0052c0.jpg . just love that 70's look
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#10
Wade,

I'm not as experienced as these guys but I have done a rebuild on my 69 351w 4v. My pushed in studs were loose so I had the machine shop put in screw in studs and went with new roller rockers. They had to machine the boss a bit to put in the studs so I had them put in the guide plate and went with new roller rockers (1.6 scorpions) and hardened push rods. I would port the exhaust on the heads and go with headers but I didn't do that on mine.

Currently I am changing my stock intake to a weiand 8023 so I'll let everyone know what type of improvement i get. my cam is a crane hmv-272-2
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