Recommendation for water pump and oil pump
#1
I want to replace my leaking water pump and oil pump for my 1969 mach 1 351 windsor 4brrl (m code). This is a stock engine. Any suggestions if i need hi flow water and oil pump or just any general stock?
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#2
Hi Rindel, I checked your profile and note that you did not include even a vague reference to where you are so we cannot give temperature related suggestions.
Having noted that, unless you were having problems with either oil pressure or over heating just stick to main stream components - avoid the cheap look-a-likes.
If you were having oil pressure problems check your old pump for wear to establish if was the pump or general wear to blame.
If you were having cooling problems get the radiator checked for flow and the thermostat for operation.
For road use and infrequent track days both standard items are fine provided they (and their systems) are correctly maintained.
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#3
+1 on what Mach1fatherfigure mentioned.

Before you go any further are you having any cooling or oil pressure issues?

Best Regards,
Mike
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#4
The engine is stock. Once and a while I see my oil light flicker on/off. At least every trip I take it flickers after driving for about an hour. My temperature gauge is usually on the high side from my experience. The needle usually sits 3/4ths the way to max. The water pump also leaks a bit. I am in NJ and just updated my profile.
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#5
I run a stock water pump and have no issues with overheating. As far as oil pumps, I personally prefer the Melling high volume pumps....just because.
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#6
How many miles are on that motor? Are you trying to add life to an old worn motor? I'm not certain, but I think the oil pressure warning light turns on at about 15 psi. A manual oil pressure gauge should be installed to verify the oil pressure. If it is low and the warning light is correct, your rod and main bearings may be worn out. If the motor is fairly new and you know the bearings are okay it is possible a press in oil galley plug popped out. I've had that happen on a 390 motor. Basically, some research should be done to determine the cause of the low oil pressure before blindly replacing the oil pump.

High volume oil pumps have there place on high performance motors with large oil clearances and high RPM use. But, for the most part high volume oil pumps are frowned upon for stock and mild performance small block Fords. I'll admit, its a gray area for 351W motors because of their large diameter main bearings. High volume oil pumps can create tremendous loads on the oil pump drive shaft, the cam and distributor gears, and the block surface the distributor gear rests on. Not to mention, cause rear main seal leaks.

As far as high operating temps. I have also fought high operating temps on my m-code 351W. I think its partly due to the high compression ratio, 10.7:1, of the m-code motors. Make certain your radiator is clean, in good condition, it is the largest 24" radiator available for it, and you have a fan shroud on it. Also, make certain your thermostat is good. What temp thermostat are you using? I have found on mine a high flow 160 degree thermostat opens when the gauge is about 1/3 past cold. You can switch to a high volume water pump but you also need a high flow thermostat. The Stewart brand high flow thermostats work have worked best for me. For thermostats on my car, I have found high flow designs work better regardless of water pump.

Here is what is took to get the temps down and consistent on mine, a Griffin aluminum radiator (the larger size they offer per their tech support based on my motor), a high volume water pump and Stewart high flow 160 degree thermostat. Each item helped, but one of these items by itself was not enough. Your choices of high volume water pumps are very limited for a 1969 351W. Basically, Edelbrock and Flow Cooler which is imported. I currently use a Flow Cooler. I initially had an Edelbrock water pump. it was made very nice with great quality, but it didn't last long on a car rarely driven before it started leaking.

Funny thing with high flow thermostats, 30 years ago all thermostats from any parts store were designed like todays high flow model.

Best Regards,
Mike
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#7
(05-19-2015, 03:48 AM)1969_Mach1 Wrote: How many miles are on that motor? Are you trying to add life to an old worn motor? I'm not certain, but I think the oil pressure warning light turns on at about 15 psi. A manual oil pressure gauge should be installed to verify the oil pressure. If it is low and the warning light is correct, your rod and main bearings may be worn out. If the motor is fairly new and you know the bearings are okay it is possible a press in oil galley plug popped out. I've had that happen on a 390 motor. Basically, some research should be done to determine the cause of the low oil pressure before blindly replacing the oil pump.

High volume oil pumps have there place on high performance motors with large oil clearances and high RPM use. But, for the most part high volume oil pumps are frowned upon for stock and mild performance small block Fords. I'll admit, its a gray area for 351W motors because of their large diameter main bearings. High volume oil pumps can create tremendous loads on the oil pump drive shaft, the cam and distributor gears, and the block surface the distributor gear rests on. Not to mention, cause rear main seal leaks.

As far as high operating temps. I have also fought high operating temps on my m-code 351W. I think its partly due to the high compression ratio, 10.7:1, of the m-code motors. Make certain your radiator is clean, in good condition, it is the largest 24" radiator available for it, and you have a fan shroud on it. Also, make certain your thermostat is good. What temp thermostat are you using? I have found on mine a high flow 160 degree thermostat opens when the gauge is about 1/3 past cold. You can switch to a high volume water pump but you also need a high flow thermostat. The Stewart brand high flow thermostats work have worked best for me. For thermostats on my car, I have found high flow designs work better regardless of water pump.

Here is what is took to get the temps down and consistent on mine, a Griffin aluminum radiator (the larger size they offer per their tech support based on my motor), a high volume water pump and Stewart high flow 160 degree thermostat. Each item helped, but one of these items by itself was not enough. Your choices of high volume water pumps are very limited for a 1969 351W. Basically, Edelbrock and Flow Cooler which is imported. I currently use a Flow Cooler. I initially had an Edelbrock water pump. it was made very nice with great quality, but it didn't last long on a car rarely driven before it started leaking.

Funny thing with high flow thermostats, 30 years ago all thermostats from any parts store were designed like todays high flow model.

Best Regards,
Mike

Hi Mike, Great points on the use a high volume oil pump...I like oil pressureBiggrin

http://mach1club.com/attachment.php?aid=9027




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#8
i bough the car last year with 20k miles. Owner said he only put a few thousand on but he wasnt the original owner. Car was sitting for about 12 years. I had to replace valve seals. I went to advance auto parts today and bought Melling Stock Replacement Oil Pump and CARQUEST Water Pump - Heavy Duty. If i change my mind i can return them.
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#9
Melling has good oil pumps. I use their heavy duty standard volume and pressure version. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mel-10.../make/ford Same as stock except the shaft inside the pump is supported at both ends. When you have the oil pan off, if you can, remove one connecting rod cap and one main bearing cap just to get a look at the bearings. Lastly, its a good ideal to replace the oil pump drive shaft when installing a new oil pump.

After changing water pumps if it still runs warm, a high flow thermostat is the most inexpensive item you can try. This is the 160 degree version. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/emp-300/overview/ They also offer 180 degree versions if you prefer that.

Best Regards,
MIke
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#10
What grade of oil did you change to? Not that 0w-40 synthetic I hope?
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