69 mach 351w engine rebuild question

[rindel]

Ok, so my dilemma is deciding whether to pay for a rebuild with performance specs for about $8.8k or pulling the engine out myself and replacing the piston oil rings which would keep the engine stock. What do you guys think? Also is $8.8k a decent price?

performance parts list from engine rebuilder
pull and place motor
repaint motor parts
replace trans fluid and u joints
tune up wires
break in oil/filter
hoses
motor/trans mounts
exhaust gasket
motor decals
motoro pain
trans fluid & gasket
u joints
header install
ceremic hooker performance headers
rebuild trans with shift kit
water pump
power steering pump
new alternator
new thermostat
air cleaner
antifreeze
break in oil
holy double pumper 750 cfm
motor rebuild with new cam producing 400HP

[Mustangmike]

That is a pretty comprehensive list of work and parts. I am not sure what motoro pain is, did you mean Moroso pan? So for the $8.8k, this would include all the parts you listed (i.e., ceramic Hooker headers, power steering, etc.) plus all the labor to pull the motor, rebuild/machine to get 400HP, reinstall back in the car and rebuild the transmission and install a performance shift kit?

I don't think it is such a terrible price and I am a pretty frugal guy. Obviously there is a profit built in for the business or they would not be in business.

If it were just purchasing a long block out the door I would say the price is a bit high but it seems like the price includes everything.

I have 2 questions:

1. There is no mention of cylinder heads in your post or on your list. Will the shop be doing machine work on the existing heads or replacing with aluminum to help achieve the 400HP? I know a set of aluminum heads can run $750 to $1,800 alone.

2. Does the shop warranty their work?

You could always price out all the parts listed in the quote plus the price of a long block to get an idea of how much it would cost you to do it yourself.

[rindel]

All the parts come with a manufactures warranty and the shop guarantees the installation for 1 year or 12,000 miles.

The 400 HP rebuild would be re-using the heads but the heads would be ported and polished. Everything will be new in the motor block. The heads will be machined/polished, new camshaft, new timing chain, new cam bushing, new oil pump, new pickup tube.

[j-cobb9]

First thing i think that they got stuck with a 750 and are trying to unload it on you. 650 dp is with out a doubt the carb for the Windsor unless u are going super radical with nos. or turbo/supercharger. The second thing is the 400 hp thing at that price, sure they will build you a good engine and it will run really good. but not 400 hp. Remember now you are running a tired 351, takes allot to get the Windsor to 400. Maybe ask if they are going to put it on an engine dyno and call you to watch them make a couple of pulls.
This is an crate engine they sell at summit racing for 4799.00 free shipping. Performance Ford 351W 385HP Stage 2 crate engines. These engines are hand-built, balanced, and dyno-proven.
These ATK High Performance Ford 351W 385HP Stage 2 crate engines include the following:

* Handpicked, remanufactured blocks
* Edelbrock aluminum cylinder heads
* Intake manifold
* OE crank and rods
* Hypereutectic pistons
* Hydraulic roller camshaft
* Cam lift- .512 int./.512 exh.
* Cam duration @ 0.50- 220 int./224 exh.
* 9.5:1 compression
* Distributor
* Valve covers
* Timing cover
* Oil pan, pump, and pickup tube
* Water pump
* Front damper and flexplate
I Just want you to get what you think you are paying for. Ask some more Questions. get some specs. Keep us posted. good luck John

[ylwhrse]

For sure a good crate engine is a great way to go for the money. I agree it sounds like the shop may have gotten stuck with the 750 carb. Sounds impressive but without the engine beneath it that could support such a carb it will at street RPM's be lazy. The double pumper style is good but if mileage is of any concern I personally would steer clear of that even and just go with the tried and true vac secondary 650-680 size carb. Just my opinion. I don't know what level of experience you have but a motor swap isn't that difficult. Yes you may have to rent a cherry picker and engine stand although harbor freight has some decent pieces for tge average joe that won't upset the bank. Again though depends on your level of ability - ie if you can put in a distributor so it will fire tge engine, prime the oil system, time the engine after it is running ect. You may be money ahead to buy a crate engine and hire a mechanic to remove your old one and install new one. Just food for thought. There are hundreds of ways to go about it.
YLWHRSE

[Mustangmike]

A long block is a great alternative but it depends on how much a numbers matching motor means to the owner. An old motor can be sent to a good machine shop and given a second life just as much as a hand picked block from Summit (who I have absolutely nothing bad to say about).

I am on board with the 750 being possibly too much carb, so I would ask the shop to price the job with a 600 or 650. The cost of the job should not change.

I guess it all comes down to how much you will end up paying for everything in the long run. My first motor I did the crate thing and loved it...the second motor I did myself at less than half the cost and am just as pleased with it, if not more, than the crate motor.

At the end of the day, muscle cars of the day did not produce the HP as they cars do today. Kind of ironic.

[j-cobb9]

Wow what a great site!!!!. What great knowledge. Ylwhrse and Mike are both exactly correct.
What works for one person may not work for another. I didn't want you to go out and buy a crate engine, just look at the specs to make almost 400. Then decide what may work best for you. Same with the carb. 650 vacuum secondaries won't work well for my engines with a high duration cam.( not much vacuum.). What ever you decide to do will be awesome. Just keep a cool mustang rolling. good luck and keep us posted John

[ylwhrse]

Absolutely! ! So many people pic the cam based on just the numbers and don't realize how much duration and overlap effect vacuum which then directly effect the carb choice. For instance my solid roller cam ( which I knew when I chose it ) only provides 5" of vacuum on a good day. Knowing that very much effected my carb choice and also effects power brakes so steps had to be taken there so I in no way was surprised. However if I had used a vacuum secondary carb I would have been very disappointed and would have had some tuning nightmares. My low vacuum and the 351 clevelands lazy intake ports at low RPM's also directly effected my choice of booster style on my chosen carb. All these things plus compression, stroked or factory displacement, intake style all will have an effect on proper carb choice and selection. Remember all things need to work in harmony to give the best performance for any desired level or goals. Be honest what you want the car to do before making any choices so you don't waste money and get disappointed. Just my opinion for what it's worth.
YLWHRSE

[rindel]

My 351 is burning oil in cylinder 5 & 6. We are pretty sure its the oil ring since the seals were already replaced (tired deep creep as well). My father-n-law (who really knows his mechanics) says we can lift the car, then remove two engine mounts, lift engine slightly, remove oil pan, and possible replace oil rings ourselves without having to pull engine out of car. I am leaning towards this since I am a stickler for trying to keep the car as original as possible. I have #s matching trans and engine. Most of the car parts appear to be original (hood hinges, interior, etc...). Do you guys think his plan would work?

Then I can enjoy incrementally adding HP to the engine over time (e.g. headers, roller rockers, rejetting 600cfm edelbrock).

[j-cobb9]

Great sounds like you have some good help. YES that can absolutely be done. Take the head off and knock out those two cylinder first, I don't think you will even have to jack the engine up to get the pan out. Then and inspect them. If you find some worn/ broken rings. great/ cheap and easy fix. Check the cylinders for wear/ over size. If you don't own one barrow,rent a micrometer and a bore gage to measure the pistons and cylinder bores. Unless you are the original owners ,you never know what someone Else did or other rebuilds that may have been done. You want to get the correct size pistons and rings. If you get it apart and find minimal wear and maybe just a broken ring. I would consider doing all of the rings. You are there. Would be a shame to do all of that work and a short time later break another ring and have to do it again. Would also give you a chance to replace the rod bearings in witch its almost certain you will find some wear on. Also try to take a peak at the timing gears to make sure they have been changed. The factory cam gear is plastic and is a ticking time bomb at this point. good luck keep us posted John