Buy it rolling and running or a total project?

[ScottCash]

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who is in the process of restoring a Firebird. He said to NOT buy project car that is running and rolling cause to do it right you would need to strip everything down to the frame anyway. Basically the way he put it was why pay 10k for a car that you will strip and rebuild anyway as opposed to 1-3k for a total restore. Then invest the difference in the engine. What do you guys think? I am not looking to restore a car to "original" factory specs. More like a resto-mod since I am not a purist. Would just like a nice looking ride with some intestinal fortitude.

[Rare Pony]

Personally, I would not be concerned with the drive train, but would want to find the most rust free body I could. I believe it's easier to do the mechanics than the body work.

Nice looking Firebird in the link. Looks like a 67/68. I had a 69 Firebird that I sold to get my 73 Mustang Convertible.

[Matt Peetz]

In my search for my Mach i had 2 basic requirments.

Good rust free frame
Running engine.

I found both of those and a body in decent shape. If i was to pay $10,000 plus i would be looking for one that is just cosmetic work.

[don29163]

Buy a good car to start with. or at least a complete car. You are not going to restore a $1500.00 car without putting 7-10 grand in it...and that doesn't count all the hundreds of hours of labor.

[Klutch]

I that's a good question, Scott. Here's my take:

- The optimal project car has a straight, rust-free body and a blown engine. This is because the blown engine should lower the value and rebuilding it is easy and inexpensive compared to major body work.

- I've been looking at Mustangs for sale for many years. I have yet to find such a car. I've seen exactly one 69-70 Mach 1 for sale which was $3,000. It was on E-bay and the seller was forthcoming that the car was almost completely rusted out. He even included many pictures of the rust. It was an interesting car because it came with a lot of nice options. But it was still almost totally lost to rust. Personally, I wouldn't want to buy it for even $1,000.

- I'm finding that people tend to want just as much money for a non-running car as they do for a "running and rolling" example. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's because there are lot of people just like your friend with the Firebird looking for such a car. Paradoxically, maybe this actually drives up the prices for a non-running car.

- There are some advantages to buying a running and rolling car. If the engine runs and doesn't spew fluids, it's very likely the block and transmission are sound. With a non-running car, you could easily pull it apart and find a broken block and broken gears. And these days it's getting harder to find a period correct engine or manual trans even if you don't want the factory originals.

- A running car is more likely to have all the pieces. The nice thing about Mustangs is you can order the entire car online. But ordering all those re-popped parts gets very expensive very quickly. When a car sits in someone's yard or barn, parts and pieces tend to get sold off, stolen or just go missing. Then you have to pull your hair out looking for things like seat belts.

- A running and rolling car is likely to have a current registration and a clean title. A non-running car is more likely to have no title and no registration. This typically isn't a big problem, but the risk of VIN fraud is greater in the non-running situation. (This happened to a friend of mine. He bought a non-running GTO project. It turned out the seller had affixed a GTO VIN to a Tempest body. It had an engine. But no kidding, it turned out to have a broken block.) Depending on the state, getting a title for a car with no title can be a hassle.

Personally, I think the optimal situation is to buy a car already restored or close to being restored. The hard and expensive work is done. You can enjoy the car immediately or almost immediately. It's actually less expensive in the long run. Of course, such cars are still expensive. A restored 69-70 Mach 1 starts at over $20,000. As we know, the price can go over $100,000 for rare examples.

Thus, I think your buddy makes a very good point. But I also think reality rarely lines up with this point. Here's an example:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/2389802459.html

The ad doesn't say it runs. Therefore, we should assume it doesn't. The original 351 is long gone. It has a 302 which isn't much good if you want any kind of a correct car. It's pretty rough. And he still wants $8,000.

[ScottCash]

Really good points Klutch! I am leaning that way as well. Seems like a rolling/running car has more advantages than a total project. Speaking of total project, is this the one you looked at ?

I also saw this one. $2500, gives you a lot of room for restoring even though it isn't a Mach. Car

[Klutch]

Scott, I've seen that 69 on Craigslist for many weeks. Its biggest problem is the "aftermarket sunroof". That's a pain to fix.

Noted the other car you listed is not a Mach 1. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. But if you want a real Mach 1, I think you're going to have a very hard time finding anything for $3,000 as your friend suggested. If you're happy to restore a fastback, I think you can find something worthwhile in that price range. Just be aware if you ever go to sell it, you won't get a price as high as a Mach 1 would fetch. Of course, it's completely up to you.

Here's the ad for the 70 Mach 1 I looked at in Montrose a few weeks ago:

http://westslope.craigslist.org/cto/2397523136.html

I'll repeat what I wrote in another post in case you, or someone else, might be interested. That 70 Mach 1 has a 351W 2V which runs very well; 96,000 original miles on the car with original drive train. It also has power steering, a close-ratio 4-speed and a 9" rear differential. The floor pans, front frame rails, torque boxes, engine plates and lower rear quarters are rusted out. Thus, I don't think the car is worth the $10,000 asking price. But for someone who doesn't mind fixing rust, it would be a great project. It's also an original Calypso Coral car, which is pretty cool.

[twotime]

My 2 cents....

The condition of the project you would buy depends mostly on your available skills, resources, time line for completion, and finances. If you're unsure of how to fully inspect a car prior to buying, hopefully you know of someone who could help.

Having restored numerous cars over the years, and realizing the time, effort and money that went into each one, I would be inclined these days to.....take out a loan, find a properly restored car, buy it, and immediately begin driving and enjoying it.

Of course you would be denied the pleasure of having done it yourself, but if you have concerns about it ending up as a dead project in your garage for whatever reason, this may be an option worth looking into. I probably should take my own advice...I do everyone else's car and mine is here: http://mach1club.com/showthread.php?tid=1195

[Steven Harris]

Good advice Twotime,

From a man that has been there numerous times and evidently finds himself still there. But, as you said you do deny yourself the satisfaction of having done your own work.

Good to see you here on the club - how is your project coming?

[twotime]

Good advice Twotime,

Good to see you here on the club - how is your project coming?

Steve,

I walked past my engine the other day, (which is sitting in a stand on the floor), and snagged my pants on the oil dipstick tube...that got me thinking to get started on this project again.