Getting HP out of your 351 2V
#11
I don't want to knock Comp Cams or any other make , but I'd like to toss out one of the greatest names in regards to anything Ford Performance related. Holman Moody.

Larry Wallace has been the "Master Cam Grinder" at Holman Moody for longer than most of us have been alive. Larry is one of those Gems in life that you can tell him... A- What You Have..B-Where you want to be and he can grind to suit the grunt you want at a reasonable price.

www.holmanmoody.com

Lee Holman will get you going on this.

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#12


I live in Thornton Colorado and have found that this high altitude does not equate to other hot rod shops out of this area at sea level giving good engine build advice as they have usually not that much experience at building power with this thin air.

Use an great aftermarket distributer as well as a really good multispark discharge unit like MSD or comparable unit.

My 1970 quench chambered 4V heads are way too open to get power at all up here. And that is with a small 600 cfm edlebrock carb on it. Its my belief that if I had smaller ports on the intake side that it would have better response.SCo_hmmthink

Your 1972 may have the dished pistons in it.
You could up the compression with flat top pistons but its costly.

Last year I spoke to a guy in Tennesee named Gray Fredrick who has built a hundred cleveland engines and has played with cam grinds for years and he told me that he has the (without a doubt) best grinds for the 351 Cleveland. ( his number is (931) 646-4836) Its "American Powertrain"Awes
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#13
(03-21-2013, 01:53 AM)Masterblaster7212 Wrote: I live in Thornton Colorado and have found that this high altitude does not equate to other hot rod shops out of this area at sea level giving good engine build advice as they have usually not that much experience at building power with this thin air.

Use an great after market distributer as well as a really good multispark discharge unit like MSD or comparable unit.

My 1970 quench chambered 4V heads are way too open to get power at all up here. And that is with a small 600 cfm edlebrock carb on it. Its my belief that if I had smaller ports on the intake side that it would have better response.:sCo_hmmthink:

Your 1972 may have the dished pistons in it.
You could up the compression with flat top pistons but its costly.

Last year I spoke to a guy in Tennesee named Gray Fredrick who has built a hundred cleveland engines and has played with cam grinds for years and he told me that he has the (without a doubt) best grinds for the 351 Cleveland. ( his number is (931) 646-4836) Its "American Powertrain":awes:
You said your 4 bbl closed chamber heads were to open ?? The only way closed chamber heads would be to open is if you were using a dished piston. Closed chamber heads are how you GET GOOD compression in clevelands. I think you must have open chamber heads which would be correct for the 72. This is true, thin air is tough, however I grew up in Denver and raced at Bandomere for as long as I can remember and made KILLER power with closed chamber 4 bbl heads on the motor and drove it on the street. however I turned the motor to 7500-8000 RPM's was running a auto trans with a 3500 RPM stall converter. Ran like a striped ass ape and was tons of fun, but a handfull at stoplights. You could leave the light nice but was hard on the trans. So it all depends on what you want and how many manners you want it to have. My current Mach 1 is a 72 that I stroked the 351C to 408 making just over 700HP shifting it at 7800 and is a 4 spd car, woohoo its a kick in the but. Yes the 72 pistons could be dished but not much. Again generally the 72 even if it was a 4 bbl motor would have had open chamber heads. Closed chamber 4 bbls heads are better and will raise the compression, however they have large ports that really dont make good power until higher up in the RPM range. While they are very streetable it all depends upon rear gear ratio, auto/standard trans and the RPm range you wish to run the engine in ( cams also dictate where that power band is and what RPM it likes) all that being said for a street motor the 2 bbls ports do work much better on the street (better throttle response and drivability) however without alot of expensive machining and special pistons they are hard to get decent (10-1/2 to 1 or 10 to 1 ) compresion which is very streetable on pump gas. So that being said by far the best way to go and I have built tons of clevelands, for the street is to get on-line and go to AUS ford parts and order a set of australian closed chamber 2 bbls heads. They have the same closed chamber as the 4 bbl USA closed chamber heads but have the much nicer streetable 2bbl ports. They work awesome in conjuction with the holley "street dominator" 4 bbl intake and the right cam. ( Again I cant say enough good about Cam research & Scott Main in Denver, they do only Ford cams and Scott races fords and mustangs and is very very knowlegeble on them, I promise you wont be dissapointed. Anyway thats my 2 cents on this. Short of spend the money and use roller cams either hydraulic or mechanical (THEY ARE WORTH THE MONEY , and extra horsepower !! ) Sorry just getting back to this as I have been finishing the body work on my 72 mach and just started painting it today. Dont hesitate to email me or drop me a note through the thread.
YLWHRSE / 72 Mach 1 mustang 4 speeed stroked cleveland to 408CID N/A 700 HP

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#14

No man;......Too open meaning that the huge ports are way too big for any torque.

Sorry..Thats what I meant to say.....lol

My car takes off the line like a dog due to those huge ports.
The small 1970 4V quench chambers are paired to flat top pistons in my car.

Another reason my car sucks off the line is due to the crappy 3:00 open diff gears in the rear.SCo_hmmthink
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#15
Oh ok I gotcha now. The 4V ports are quite large and do make the cleveland lazy on the bottom end for sure. There are a couple of ways to remedy that. All depends on how far you want to go and what your realistic goals & expectations are with the car, some depends on how the rest of your motor was built and what cam you have in it. Depending on the cam you have you could also advance the cam 2-4* which would move the powerband lower in the RPM range at the cost of upper mid range to higher RPM power. Sadly everything is a trade off. Not knowing what is in your motor or what trans/converter combo or 4 spd ect , my first choice for a street motor is bite the bullet and buy a set of australian closed chamber heads. They are amazing at waking up the bottom end and still maintaining good compression ratio. They have closed chamber ports (like the closed chamber 4V heads do) but the have the smaller 2 bbls intake & exhaust ports and runners. They work very well on the street. I usualy used the holley street dominator intake and you can find them very fair priced on ebay 100-150 bucks (it has the 4bbl carb pad but has 2 bbls ports at the head side of manifold) . The best way by far to wake up the clevelands bottom end and not sacrifice top end or mid range power is to stroke it. 393 to 408 work very very well, the 408 is my current set up and I turn it to 7800 no problem and it has simply killer bottom end. My set up is a 72 mach 1 with a 4 spd & 3.73 rear gear ratio. Anyway hope that helps. Let me know if you want any more info I am happy to offer any help I can based on my own trial and errors and all the research i have done to make them run.
YLWHRSE
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#16
I have seen these Australian heads for about $450 dollars on Ebay lately.

I think that some company must be importing them on the west coast.

I have the set of 4V heads and a set of Q-code 4V heads (open chambered) with studs machined in them for roller rockers but I am not using them.
I also have two sets of 2V heads from stock Cleveland engines I have on engine stands.

I am open to trades for a good pair of those Australian heads if anyone has a set they dont plan on using and is interested. Pray
Ive been reading old "Pat Ganahl's-FORD PERFORMANCE" recipies for Ford horsepower for years. It has a great (Australian head) article in it.
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#17
I just bought a set of austrailian AFD heads for my 408 cleveland stroker build. They were not $450 lol Biggrin These heads are really nice and are suppose to be one of the best heads for a cleveland on the market, but they run around $2000. My motor should be done in the next few weeks so i will let you know how they perform.
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#18
(03-23-2013, 12:39 AM)Masterblaster7212 Wrote: I have seen these Australian heads for about $450 dollars on Ebay lately.

I think that some company must be importing them on the west coast.

I have the set of 4V heads and a set of Q-code 4V heads (open chambered) with studs machined in them for roller rockers but I am not using them.
I also have two sets of 2V heads from stock Cleveland engines I have on engine stands.

I am open to trades for a good pair of those Australian heads if anyone has a set they dont plan on using and is interested. Pray
Ive been reading old "Pat Ganahl's-FORD PERFORMANCE" recipies for Ford horsepower for years. It has a great (Australian head) article in it.
I am not sure what heads the other guy got that were australian and cost 2000 ? Maybe they were alluminum, IDK. But the source for the 2 bbl closed chambered aussie heads is a company called " AUSFORDPARTS.com " just google it and you can oreder a set for $380 plus $97 dollars for shipping for a total of $477 to your door. Granted then you will obviously have to have them surfaced ( or at least I would any head that you use ) and have a valve job done, so depending on your machine shop and what valves u already have & use , you can expect to have probably 800-1200 into them all in and done. A very worthwhile expense for a street motor. You will be amazed at the difference in torque from your cleveland. If you are mechanically inclined at all you can buy a cheap air die grinder and a polishing kit and do a small porting/gasket match job to the intake and exhaust ports which will improve on flow even more. If you do this remember to polish the exhaust smooth smooth and if doing the intakes you can leave it a tad on the rough side ( 2 schools of thought there, 1 being that it helps with air/fuel atomization which i believe to be true. Any dyno time I have had shows that leaving the intakes a little rough, not baby ass smooth makes better HP & torque. Others say smooth on both, but I found thats not true on the clevelands I think partialy due to realative large ports ( even 2 bbl ports are quite large compared to other ford engines and other makes also ) and large valves making them a tad lazy on flow. the 4 bbl ports even make this worse unless you wind them up. Any of you that have run them at higher RPM's know how the power & torque come in higher up (depending on cam of course) but for sure more mid to upper RPM range. The 2 bbls aussie heads help this tremendously. Although I like to wind the shit out of mine. Check out ausfordparts as the have for those interested aussie blocks and other cleveland parts as well. The aussie blocks had a higher nickle content and were stronger and more durable for the higher HP builds, although I have not had a problem with the USA blocks up to 650-700 HP. Much over that and you need to start using a stud girdle and sometimes even a lifter valley girdle. FYI if any of you have a truck or bronco with a 351M or 400 the aussie closed chamber 2 bbl heads put on those engines are a night and day difference there as well, I have done that as well. Lucky for us the aussies had the clevelands for quite a few more years than us here in the USA. Anyways hope this helps and hope the aussie parts location helps you all as well. Just my 2 cents.
YLWHRSE

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#19
Yeah, sorry the heads i was talking about are aluminum. Reason I went with them was because by the time you buy a set of steel heads and have them machined and redone you will have well over a grand in them easy. And I was told that ausford parts went out of business?? The comPany that I ordered my heads off of told they went out of business sometime lastyear. Their website is still up so I don't know??
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#20
That deff makes sense then that they were alluminum. Yes true depending on your machine shop and what the heads need you could spend anywhere from on a low side of around 500/600 to as much as 1000 dollars. Alluminum heads are also more forgiving when it comes to compression, generally you can get by with 1 point more than what you have with steel heads and still be ok. As far as the company ausfordparts goes, no they are still in business and have been for quite some time. The only thing is they dont always have the pieces you want. Just depends on cores ect. They also dont always have an add on ebay, that comes and goes so sometimes people confuse that with being out of business. Anyway hope all this helps. YLWHRSE
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