Fuel pump & carb replacement
#11
Update on my fuel pump problem. I installed the Edelbrock and tested it right away. Came up with 6.5 to 7 psi. Perfect. Put everything back together and expected it to pop right off. That was a mistake. Same exact result. I am now turning my attention to the timing. Number one plug is fouled.
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#12
Okay, if the #1 plug is fouled. It would be logical to assume, all the plugs are fouled. I have seen fouled plugs cause an engine not to accelerate very well. Maybe not quite to the extent you've described, but. Screw in a new set, and see what happens. If it still runs like crap, then the timing has moved, or jumped somewhere. Check the rotor in the cap. I've seen the locating lug inside get worn down, and allow the button to turn on the shaft. Yeah that's a fun one. I just got lucky, and looked up inside it, and saw the problem, simple replace the rotor, and all was good. Hook a timing light, and start the car, see if the marks are anywhere near??? Loosen the distributor, and move it back, and forth a little at a time, and see what difference that makes. If that shows little, or no improvement. then I'm betting on the pin in the distributor shaft, or the timing chain has jumped, cam bolt loose, and sheared the pin on the cam, something like that. It sounds like you've got a real can of worms, as we used to say. Good Luck. Sorry I haven't got better news.  Confused 

JTS
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#13
(07-18-2020, 11:49 AM)JTS71 Mach1 Wrote: Okay, if the #1 plug is fouled. It would be logical to assume, all the plugs are fouled. I have seen fouled plugs cause an engine not to accelerate very well. Maybe not quite to the extent you've described, but. Screw in a new set, and see what happens. If it still runs like crap, then the timing has moved, or jumped somewhere. Check the rotor in the cap. I've seen the locating lug inside get worn down, and allow the button to turn on the shaft. Yeah that's a fun one. I just got lucky, and looked up inside it, and saw the problem, simple replace the rotor, and all was good. Hook a timing light, and start the car, see if the marks are anywhere near??? Loosen the distributor, and move it back, and forth a little at a time, and see what difference that makes. If that shows little, or no improvement. then I'm betting on the pin in the distributor shaft, or the timing chain has jumped, cam bolt loose, and sheared the pin on the cam, something like that. It sounds like you've got a real can of worms, as we used to say. Good Luck. Sorry I haven't got better news.  Confused 

JTS
Problem solved! But I have a new problem. This one is easily fixed though. I had installed a new MSD electronic ignition system including the distributor. I was doing the timing and it was very difficult to turn the distributor. I got the car running and concluded that the distributor had jumped a cog somehow. I was going to just lift the distributor up enough to return it to the position it should be but decided to take it out for inspection. I had already had the timing light on it and it was way off but running good. The bearings are shot in the new distributor and the oil pump rod doesn’t fit into the shaft properly. I don’t know how I got it installed and running initially but I did. Now it’s time to call MSD (owned by guess who, Holley), and find out what is going on. 
Thanks for your help and suggestions.
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#14
Before you call Holley about the bearing inside the distributor.  There is only one bearing in those distributors and it's near the top.  Movement on the bottom of the shaft is normal.  The bottom of the shaft is located by the engine block.  Even stock distributors only have a bushing near the top of the distributor.

I've never seen an MSD distributor not fit.  The tolerances are tighter that OEM, but I have never seen one not fit.  I'm thinking it merely was not lined up correctly with the oil pump drive shaft.  What type of oil pump drive shaft did you install?  Since FE motors use such a small hex oil pump drive, it's a good idea to install one made by ARP.

I think the hex on the oil pump drive is 1/4".  Since the distributor is out, see how a 1/4" Allen wrench fits into the distributor shaft.
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#15
(07-19-2020, 07:35 AM)1969_Mach1 Wrote: Before you call Holley about the bearing inside the distributor.  There is only one bearing in those distributors and it's near the top.  Movement on the bottom of the shaft is normal.  The bottom of the shaft is located by the engine block.  Even stock distributors only have a bushing near the top of the distributor.

I've never seen an MSD distributor not fit.  The tolerances are tighter that OEM, but I have never seen one not fit.  I'm thinking it merely was not lined up correctly with the oil pump drive shaft.  What type of oil pump drive shaft did you install?  Since FE motors use such a small hex oil pump drive, it's a good idea to install one made by ARP.

I think the hex on the oil pump drive is 1/4".  Since the distributor is out, see how a 1/4" Allen wrench fits into the distributor shaft.
I believe that I am the one that screwed it up when I installed it. The distributor is shot. It should turn freely but doesn’t. When I installed it I didn’t have the allen points of the oil pump drive rod lined up and it was forced in which in turn created a whole bunch of stress on the bearing in the distributor. I have no idea how I got it in there and working. It was a very tight fit into the block to begin with and didn’t realize I didn’t have the rod lined up.
I have a new MSD distributor coming along with a new Miloden oil pump drive rod. It doesn’t look like I screwed up the oil pump so I got lucky. 
Thanks for responding. Thumbup
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#16
If the oil pump drive looks okay from the top, I think I'd leave it.  After the motor starts, watch the oil pressure to make certain all is okay.  You're probably aware, you need to drop the oil pan and oil pump to install the oil pump drive.  It gets installed from the bottom.  If you are planning on doing that, you might as well install a new oil pump as well.  FYI, some people frown on high volume oil pumps in FE motors without doing additional oiling work.  Mostly because in stock form FE motors tend to over oil the valve train and have very poor oil drain back from the cylinder heads.  Many claim at high RPM, a high volume oil pump on a stock FE motor you can drain the oil pan and fill the valve covers with oil.  I don't have experience with that but it seems reasonable.  I installed a stock Melling oil pump with an ARP oil pump drive in a 390 for another project.  We'll see how it works when I get the motor running.

You can get parts for that distributor from MSD.  I have purchased individual parts in the past, shafts, collars, roll pins direct from MSD.  I'm sure you can get a new bearing.
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#17
[attachment=13118 Wrote:[attachment=13119]1969_Mach1 pid='40213' dateline='1595190696']If the oil pump drive looks okay from the top, I think I'd leave it.  After the motor starts, watch the oil pressure to make certain all is okay.  You're probably aware, you need to drop the oil pan and oil pump to install the oil pump drive.  It gets installed from the bottom.  If you are planning on doing that, you might as well install a new oil pump as well.  FYI, some people frown on high volume oil pumps in FE motors without doing additional oiling work.  Mostly because in stock form FE motors tend to over oil the valve train and have very poor oil drain back from the cylinder heads.  Many claim at high RPM, a high volume oil pump on a stock FE motor you can drain the oil pan and fill the valve covers with oil.  I don't have experience with that but it seems reasonable.  I installed a stock Melling oil pump with an ARP oil pump drive in a 390 for another project.  We'll see how it works when I get the motor running.

You can get parts for that distributor from MSD.  I have purchased individual parts in the past, shafts, collars, roll pins direct from MSD.  I'm sure you can get a new bearing.
Are you sure the drive rod doesn’t just drop in from the top? If I do have to drop the pan, I’ll definitely be replacing the pump. Sure glad I bought the Quick Jack. I think I have to remove the sway bar to get the pan out but haven’t researched it yet. I’ll just replace the pump with a factory replacement from Rock Auto. I’ve already ordered the new distributor. I don’t want to mess with replacing parts. I don’t know how hot it got and what damage was done. Maybe MSD (Holley) will work with me. 
There is a weird metal ring between the cog and the bottom of the shaft housing that I have no clue what or where it came from. It is too small to fit over the cog or housing and it doesn’t look like it came off the stop collar. I’ll try to attach a video. If that doesn’t work I’ll take some pics. It won’t let me do the video.
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#18
I'm 100% certain the oil pump drive shaft goes in from the bottom.  If somebody installed it from the top, they made a mistake.  You'll notice on the oil pump drive there is a push on clip near one end.  They all have that clip regardless of brand.  The end with the clip goes up when installed.  When installed the clip sits just below the hole in the block the distributor shaft passes through.  Here is why.  Once in a great while the oil pump drive shaft will stick inside the distributor shaft.  The sole purpose of the clip is to prevent you from accidentally pulling out the oil pump drive shaft when removing the distributor. Imagine, a simple distributor removal and the oil pump drive lifts partially out then falls into the motor.

As far as oil pan removal, the easiest way I have found to remove the oil pan on my 1969 Mach 1 is to (1) unbolt the idler arm from the frame on the passenger side and remove the steering arm from the steering box.  It's worth investing in a steering arm puller.  If you have factory power steering you'll need to need to remove the ram from the frame bracket as well. (2) With the steering linkage loose, push if rearward and hang it with wire, rope, or anything handy.  (3) Remove the two bolts holding that round tube crossmember that passes under the oil pan.  If those have never been removed, soak them with something like PB Blaster for a day or so before trying to remove them.  After those items are out of the way, there is ample room to drop the oil pan straight down. It might sound like a lot of extra work, but it makes installing the oil pan much easier.

I don't know what that beat up ring is on your distributor.  It's definitely not part of the distributor and I've seen nothing like that inside the 390 in my 1956 F100.  Hopefully somebody else here might know what it is from.  Does everything look okay down inside the block?  At this point you probably should remove the oil pan so you can look inside.
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#19
(07-20-2020, 11:33 AM)1969_Mach1 Wrote: I'm 100% certain the oil pump drive shaft goes in from the bottom.  If somebody installed it from the top, they made a mistake.  You'll notice on the oil pump drive there is a push on clip near one end.  They all have that clip regardless of brand.  The end with the clip goes up when installed.  When installed the clip sits just below the hole in the block the distributor shaft passes through.  Here is why.  Once in a great while the oil pump drive shaft will stick inside the distributor shaft.  The sole purpose of the clip is to prevent you from accidentally pulling out the oil pump drive shaft when removing the distributor.  Imagine, a simple distributor removal and the oil pump drive lifts partially out then falls into the motor.

As far as oil pan removal, the easiest way I have found to remove the oil pan on my 1969 Mach 1 is to (1) unbolt the idler arm from the frame on the passenger side and remove the steering arm from the steering box.  It's worth investing in a steering arm puller.  If you have factory power steering you'll need to need to remove the ram from the frame bracket as well.  (2) With the steering linkage loose, push if rearward and hang it with wire, rope, or anything handy.  (3) Remove the two bolts holding that round tube crossmember that passes under the oil pan.  If those have never been removed, soak them with something like PB Blaster for a day or so before trying to remove them.  After those items are out of the way, there is ample room to drop the oil pan straight down.  It might sound like a lot of extra work, but it makes installing the oil pan much easier.

I don't know what that beat up ring is on your distributor.  It's definitely not part of the distributor and I've seen nothing like that inside the 390 in my 1956 F100.  Hopefully somebody else here might know what it is from.  Does everything look okay down inside the block?  At this point you probably should remove the oil pan so you can look inside.
I know about the clip. My current one doesn’t have one and that is exactly what happened when I pulled the distributor. This 428 has been rebuilt once and I think they must have taken it to a cut rate shop. Things look OK down the hole. No chips or burrs or anything else. Thanks for the info on pulling the pan. It will save me a ton of time. Me or my brother should have the puller needed and if we don’t, the O’Reilly Auto is a couple blocks away and borrows out specialty tools for free.
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#20
No Fair, leaving out critical information such as having replaced the distributor!  LOL!  Yeah it sounds like things are not at all well, with your distributor. As for the little clip on the distributor shaft, the one supposed to keep the shaft from coming out with the distributor. They are notorious for not being there, or being found in the oil pan. Whether this is because the pump shaft stuck hard enough, to allow the clip to slide down upon removal, or the clip broke, or someone being in the engine before, and not having put it back on. I've had to pull several oil pans because of the pump shaft coming up with the distributor, and falling into the the oil pan "CLUNK", aggravating as heck! I've only found 2 in all the years, on the shaft, and actually holding the shaft in place. Most usually they are in the pan. As for the metal ring. Looks like what's left of a bearing? a thin metal sleeve? that was protecting something? I can't for the life of me think of anything else in that area? Question did you use your original distributor gear??? I believe there are different diameter gears used over the years, and if the outer diameter was larger then the original. It would very definitely put a side load on the distributor. Making it hard to install, and cause the binding, That ring could be whats left of the bearing inside the distributor, smashed flat, and got thinner and thinner, until it was forced out, and is what you see here??? I've seen bearings mangled into some strange shapes over the years. Extreme pressure, heat, and lack of oil, cause strange things to happen. I like Mike would recommend pulling the pan and being dang sure you haven't harmed anything else. Check the neck of the oil pump as the are pretty easy to break. Ask me how I know. 

Good luck and keep us updated. 

JTS
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