351c 2v power upgrades
#1
Hello. I have a 71 Mach 1 with 351c 2v and a c6. I have a airgap intake, 600 CFM Edelbrock carb, long headers, and going to purchase a dual exhaust system all waiting to be put on. I will most likely get an upgraded distributor as well. My question is what kind of power increase can I expect over stock, and any opinions on installing a new cam? I am wondering if the bolt ons will be enough power without the cam swap. Any thoughts? I am just going to be on the street.
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#2
Look up "Comp Cams", on the computer and call there tech line. They will help you match a cam, exactly to your engine, with the bolt ons you described. Takes all the guess work out of it and they will tell you what kind of horsepower to expect. To easy! JTS 71 Mach1
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#3
JTS71 has a lot of experience and has given you some great advice. When you find out what the experts tell you please pass back by and let us know so that we can share it with the next one to inquire.

Here's hoping they give you an answer you want.
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#4
Here is a link on here what I've done to my 351C 2v Exhaust with the same intake, carb, headers, and MSD Ignition.
http://mach1club.com/showthread.php?tid=5859
You will gain some noticeable HP gains. Torque is what you truly want. After the Change power disc brakes are a Must. Go with 2 1\2 inch pipe and mufflers. Cross pipe for low end power and X pipe for High end Power. I just preferred the sound of the X Pipe. More of a Nascar sound too. Going with a big lopper cam is going to give you high rpm HP and a Awesome sound but sacrificing low end torque and HP. The stock 2v heads are huge on these Cleveland's. Giving lots of horse power but lacking torque. Even worse on the 4v heads. With any cam swap I suggest lowering the rear end gear to at least 373 with an auto C6. The big cams you will also need a higher rpm stall.

I have a 73 Mach 1 with an upgraded advanced cam from comp cams. Pretty much the same cam in a 71 but with Hydraulic rollers.
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#5
I don't have much experience with Cleveland's. But, in my opinion, a cam swap can have the largest performance improvement for bolt on items. For the cost, I would definitely include a cam swap with your upgrades. I've used Comp Cams 284 Magnum Hydraulic Roller in a 351W. It was okay, a little lazy below about 2500 rpm. I swapped it out for Ford Racing's X303 (Crane's 449661) Hydraulic Roller. Anyway, Comp has the biggest off-the-shelf selection for Ford's, but I would try Crane or Lunati if they offer something suitable for you. Whatever mfg. you choose, talk to their tech support a few times to be certain you get consistent information. I prefer one of the big cam mfgs. Comp, Crane, Lunati, simply because I feel they have the resources for R&D on their cams and are not only designed with computer simulations.

Keep in mind the valve spring requirements of a new cam. Often, with stock heads, your valve spring selection is limited because of fitment issues without cylinder head machine work.

For your exhaust, I am with 73mach1351c, 2-1/2 inch, but I like the x-pipe over the h-pipe, just personal preference. The x-pipe does smooth out the idle sound quite a bit. I had a few cams in my motor before settling on the X303 and they all had a fairly smooth idle sound. I was always told it was from the x-pipe.

Have fun with your project!

Regards,
Mike
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#6
(02-27-2015, 10:12 AM)1969_Mach1 Wrote: But, in my opinion, a cam swap can have the largest performance improvement for bolt on items.

I read in a Mustang restoration book that dollar for dollar, the oil pan windage tray provided the most performance gain...but of course they cost $10 back then so I guess it makes sense. So, a windage tray may be another bolt on option.



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#7
(02-27-2015, 10:55 AM)Mustangmike Wrote:
(02-27-2015, 10:12 AM)1969_Mach1 Wrote: But, in my opinion, a cam swap can have the largest performance improvement for bolt on items.

I read in a Mustang restoration book that dollar for dollar, the oil pan windage tray provided the most performance gain...but of course they cost $10 back then so I guess it makes sense. So, a windage tray may be another bolt on option.

That's funny! I forgot about that. And a windage tray is always a necessary item for me when I build a motor. It's inexpensive high RPM Hp. If he drops the oil pan when doing a cam swap I would include a windage tray. Alright, something else to buy!

I didn't want to mention, but, if he can still exchange the 600 cfm carb, the 750 cfm that Edelbrock might be a better size. I think it is their Thunder Series. Especially with that Air Gap dual plane intake.

Best Regards,
Mike
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#8
Windage trays and scraper plates are noted for high rpm, horsepower savings on engines that turn 7 to 8 thousand RPM and up. While I'm sure they have some benefit of keeping the oil in the pan. On a street driven, low Rpm (below 6000 RPM) street engine, They have very little practical Hp increase. Just my opinion. JTS 71 Mach1

PS, On the other suggestions, they are all good, but as you can tell everybody and their brother, has a different point of view, on what is needed (including me). That is why I said to call Comp cams. I have personally toured their facility in Memphis These guys get paid to play with all kinds of engines daily for the fun of it, and they dyno dozens of combinations day in and day out, during R&D. so they know what works in the real world, not just on paper or the computer screen. Cause it doesn't always work as well, as the computer said it would. JTS 71 Mach1
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#9
(02-27-2015, 01:44 PM)JTS71 Mach1 Wrote: PS, On the other suggestions, they are all good, but as you can tell everybody and their brother, has a different point of view, on what is needed (including me). That is why I said to call Comp cams. I have personally toured their facility in Memphis These guys get paid to play with all kinds of engines daily for the fun of it, and they dyno dozens of combinations day in and day out, during R&D. so they know what works in the real world, not just on paper or the computer screen. Cause it doesn't always work as well, as the computer said it would. JTS 71 Mach1

My thoughts are the same JTS71 Mach1. I'd rather purchase a cam from a company that has spent time with R&D and real world testing as well. I know Comp does that. I hope the other major mfgs. do as well.

Regards,
Mike
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#10
These are the things I've done to mine:

[*] .060" bores w/9.5:1 Keith Black hypereutectic flat-top pistons
[*] balanced & blueprinted
[*] original crank turned .010"/.010"
[*] CompCams Roller Cam kit (K32-421-8) 274/274 w.566" lift (.218/.218 @.500" on 110 lobes)
[*] CompCams Hi-Energy Roller Rockers (1.73)
[*] Crane Cams screw-in 7/16" rocker studs
[*] Edelbrock Performer intake,
[*] Edelbrock Performer 1406 600CFM carb
[*] 3-angle valve job & hardened seats (rebuilt the stock 2V heads)
[*] Canton windage tray
[*] Chrome 'stock' oil pan, Edelbrock valve covers
[*] Holley "Black" electric fuel pump
[*] Duraspark ignition w/Accel Super Coil & 8mm wires
[*] Hooker Competition Ceramic-coated Long-Tube Headers
[*] Pype 2.5" stainless exhaust w/X-pipe - Pypes Street Pro mufflers

Mine was original, but seized - most likely in 1980 (last time it was registered, according to the inspection sticker on the windshield).

Pulled out the engine and started tearing it down:

[Image: 46400_155084234502503_7449094_n.jpg?oh=4...e=5590EF18]

Got it back together and almost ready to go back in:

[Image: 542144_433474629996794_1108156464_n.jpg?...76a001c7bb]

Once it was all back in with new exhaust, electrics, pretty much everything, got it all hooked up and fired it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...3C6DFc8LME

According to CompCams CamQuest utility (on their website), that cam with all the things I've done to the engine says to expect around 400hp (crank, I'm sure). Regardless of what the actual numbers are, it laid a patch in front of the house coming off the trailer, and that's with 3.00 rear gears through the AOD. I think it'll do just fine. ;)

Hope this helps!
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