Know about this motor?
#1
I am contemplating this motor for my 1965 Mustang. I have been down the road with rebuilt engines and they are all shit. They for me have always been a constant issue.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/par...ield=11752

306 CUBIC INCHES 340 HP CRATE ENGINE
M-6007-X302*

I built 1 motor 3 times once because people/shops dont do what they say and suck.

Id like opinions or experiences you guys have with motors and who you think is the best engine builder you've dealt with. If they have a website that would be awesome.

I've been told I could get a lot more if I built a stroker myself, but nobody in my opinion stands behind their work or product anymore. I'm also chasing down some California connections.

Fire away with suggestions
I'm liking the 2 year 24000 mile warranty from Ford. But I've read this motor disappoints in performance and power adders are not recommended. I'm wanting at the minimum 350+ to the wheels.
I like this Ford crate motor only for the slight performance gain and the warranty.

Is a 347 Stroker motor for 4000 or less not reality??
Each of my posts is a sincere attempt to correlate & compound the collective knowledge of this community for the benefit of myself & all Mach1 owners who read these pages today, and in the future!
Welcome all Mach1 enthusiasts were glad your here! Jump on in and spread all the knowledge you can.Rockxtreme


Current Vehicles:
2015 Harley-Davidson Electra Glide Ultra Classic
2014 Ford F150 Platinum 4x4 5.0
2013 Shelby GT500 SVT 20th Anniversary Edition
2013 Mustang GT 5.0
2007 Kawasaki Brute Force 750i 4x4
2006 Kawasaki Brute Force 750i 4x4
2006 Yamaha Raptor 700R
1979 Pontiac Trans Am

Sell your Mustang or Mustang Parts free!
   [Image: sellmymustang.JPG]


"Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Carroll Shelby
My Mustang just used the gas your Prius saved. Thanks!

Phoenix Arizona
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MY CURRENT MUSTANGS
updating
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#2
Sorry Joe - I have no experience with the specific motor mentioned nor do I have any recommendation for another motor or builder.

Anyway maybe someone else can help. All the best in your motor selection and/or motor builder.
[Image: Arizona_flag_32w.gif]
Southern Arizona
Current Mustangs:
1973 Mach 1

1971 Mustang Grande
1965 Mustang
[Image: stevenharris.jpg]
http://www.mexicomissionariesofcbt.blogspot.com/
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#3
Just some thoughts - use at your own risk. SCo_hmmthink You can get 325 HP out of a 289 if you know what you're doing. Sounds like you're just paying people to do all of the work for you. Stop doing that. These engines aren't vey complicated. A little 289 should spin fast. Your '65 should be light. Perfect. You don't need a stroker. Think light stuff and internal balance. 351W or SBC valves in 289 heads with good port work makes good street power - learn how to do this and if you can, by all means make friends with someone who has a flow bench. We have relatively low cost roller cams now. Makes the top end buildup on a street motor a lot easier. The weak part of a (high-RPM) 289 is the rods (small bolts). I've used Boss 302 rods in mine in the past (they're actually the same length as 289 rods) but I think there might be lower-cost alternatives available now. Don't trust someone to take your money and do the right thing unless you know them personally and / or you're VERY specific about what you want them to do. Telling someone to build the build you "best" engine they can for 5 grand is not a good idea. If you don't have the skill to do something - LEARN IT. If you don't have the tools, borrow them or make sure that whoever you hire to perform the work knows what they're doing. Look at the equipment that they have in the shop. If they're going to bore and hone your block they better have torque plates for a Small-bloch Ford.

On the other side of this: The crate motor that you picked out actually looks pretty good but be advised that it's not 100% Plug and play with an old Mustang and it's not a "stroker" It's just a "big" 302. Sure it can be made to work but you need to be aware of some details. For example, Small-block Fords are internally balanced and it looks like they changed something in 1981 so your flywheel or flexplate (from the '65) will probably need to be re-balanced if you bolt it onto this engine. Make sure you know what you're doing here.

What are you going to do with the car? Bracket racing or street stuff? Race motors are disappointing on the street. They sound great but they're actually REALLY annoying to drive in traffic. Don't get lured into the MAX HP pissing contest. Torque rules on the street. A light weight car almost makes up for over-camming and over-porting but a heavy car kills EVERYTHING. Learn as much as you can before you spend your money on "bolt-on horsepower"!

Don't overlook suspension and chassis mods. I'll be honest even though it might hurt: an early (non-Shelby) is pretty much junk in the suspension and chassis area. Reality - what a concept. Sometimes you can make a car go faster, NOT by adding power but rather by more effectively using the power that it already has. Think about it.

If you can watch some fast early Mustangs on a drag strip, look at the times that they run what they've done to the suspension and trans. Ask about their estimated HP numbers. This will give you some ideas about what you need to do and give you some baselines. You will probably be surprised by some of the things that you discover.
JRP

1971 Mach 1, 1973 Opel GT, 2013 Mercedes C300, 2012 FLHRC, 1982 FXRS, 1972 XLH
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#4
About 4 years ago I purchased a crate motor from Pro-Formance Unlimited out of New Jersey. The motor was everything they said it would be and the car pulled in all gears. The only issue I ran into, and to JRPs point, they sent me a 164 tooth flywheel instead of a 157 tooth. I swapped it out locally and Pro-Formance reimbursed the cost. The motor was a later 302 block and I installed a stock 289 28 oz flywheel with no balance issues. They also backed their motors 2 year/24,000 miles. But, I bet if push came to shove there would be a racing clause in the warranty if something went wrong with the motor. The downside of the crate motor was the cost.

Personally I would read the reviews for the motor you are interested in to learn the experiences of others who have purchased this motor. Also, I would read the small print of the warranty. There is usually a disclaimer on most performance/racing parts. If not, the company would be out of business if every time someone blew their motor they had to replace it.

I have had pretty good luck with local machine shops and I saved about 45 -50% of the cost over a crate motor. But I understand your point that people don't always do what they say...It is very discouraging to say the least.


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#5
(07-08-2014, 06:02 AM)Mustangmike Wrote: About 4 years ago I purchased a crate motor from Pro-Formance Unlimited out of New Jersey. The motor was everything they said it would be and the car pulled in all gears. The only issue I ran into, and to JRPs point, they sent me a 164 tooth flywheel instead of a 157 tooth. I swapped it out locally and Pro-Formance reimbursed the cost. The motor was a later 302 block and I installed a stock 289 28 oz flywheel with no balance issues. They also backed their motors 2 year/24,000 miles. But, I bet if push came to shove there would be a racing clause in the warranty if something went wrong with the motor. The downside of the crate motor was the cost.

Personally I would read the reviews for the motor you are interested in to learn the experiences of others who have purchased this motor. Also, I would read the small print of the warranty. There is usually a disclaimer on most performance/racing parts. If not, the company would be out of business if every time someone blew their motor they had to replace it.

I have had pretty good luck with local machine shops and I saved about 45 -50% of the cost over a crate motor. But I understand your point that people don't always do what they say...It is very discouraging to say the least.
Thats a lot to think sbout,
I have been on both sides of this coin and its difficult, to to find an engine shop that will give you just what you want, the thing is Ive experienced is, customers came into the shop and being dissapointed with the costs involved when building up an old core engine, you got off a mate cheap, to your wishes.
Quite often the price scares most people off as its not just the price of the go fast parts and assembly required, its also the amount of time and moneyShock the machine shop needs to prep the block, crack testing tunnel boring the list goes on,
A good machine shop will in most cases deliver, but when your supplying the core, which is very likely, you can often go through more than 1 before you get a good one, at your expense and frustration.
In saying this, I still like to build my own motors, just cos its fun. Im sure not all crate motors are as bad as people say. The first thing that came to mind in your case was a good ol boss motor, another option is a strong no frills big block motor, but I guess that carries its own challenges in your situation.SCo_hmmthink

The one big advantage with using a machine shop, is the the same people who build the engine often have a fitting service so if something does go wrong you are only dealing with 1 shop not the supplier and the fitter pointing the finger at one another, as to whos responsible.

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#6
Damn Joe you just about bit off more then you can chew, with this one. Most everyone has given pretty sage advice as there are many things to be considered. There is no clear and easy answer so to say. The first thing, is the engine in good shape? Or does it need rebuilt? Using oil, knocking, low oil pressure, aren't good. If the engine is sound. "I" would probably call Edelbrocks hotline. Explain what you have, and what you want as far as Hp and torque. Then buy a top end kit. Couple Thousand $ last I knew. This will consist of a new set of aluminum heads complete with big valves and all the goodies, It will have an intake matched to the heads. a cam and lifters. and to top it off the correctly sized Edelbrock four barrel. All matched to what you want. Lets face it the only thing we can change on an engine is the Top End, all the pistons do is go up and down, so were kinda stuck with that. (unless you want to go all the way?) All the power is made in the top half, Heads, Cam, Intake and carb, don't forget the headers. After all an engine is nothing but an AIR PUMP! The more you can get in, the more you can get out, the faster it will run! Hope it helps. JTS 71 Mach1
"We built these cars to drive the "HELL" out of them, not to be museum pieces!"  Carroll Shelby

2008 Mustang V6 5 speed "Diablo Sport Predator" tuner, 87 octane tune. WOW!
1994 Ford F150 Shortbed
1986 Honda 450 Rebel
1995 Honda Pacific Coast
1989 Jacobra / Jag xjs
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#7
Thanks guys for all the advice!

I think I'm going to hold off for a little longer. The motor in it now runs pretty good its just well, balless :)

The issue with this car is I'm hoping I can break even on it someday, and frankly I'm seeing prices really falling for 65-68 Coupe Mustangs. So I want to do the most and potentially lose the least at the end.

If this was a 69-70 Mach 1 Id dump money into it, but these days its 15k for junk, parts are expensive for these type cars.

I even thought about throwing some 373 gears into this and just killing the motor then make the decision what to do.
The problem really is it has a few leaks that if I'm going to repair some of this it will be doing work twice. Rear main leaks a little and tranny leaks. Valve covers seep a little, I cranked them down right after I bought it and that seems to have helped some but I also haven't driven it that much.

If I wasn't concerned about the state of our world right now Id be more comfortable dropping money into a car, but I don't like the way our world is functioning, it makes me nervous. :)
Each of my posts is a sincere attempt to correlate & compound the collective knowledge of this community for the benefit of myself & all Mach1 owners who read these pages today, and in the future!
Welcome all Mach1 enthusiasts were glad your here! Jump on in and spread all the knowledge you can.Rockxtreme


Current Vehicles:
2015 Harley-Davidson Electra Glide Ultra Classic
2014 Ford F150 Platinum 4x4 5.0
2013 Shelby GT500 SVT 20th Anniversary Edition
2013 Mustang GT 5.0
2007 Kawasaki Brute Force 750i 4x4
2006 Kawasaki Brute Force 750i 4x4
2006 Yamaha Raptor 700R
1979 Pontiac Trans Am

Sell your Mustang or Mustang Parts free!
   [Image: sellmymustang.JPG]


"Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Carroll Shelby
My Mustang just used the gas your Prius saved. Thanks!

Phoenix Arizona
[Image: USA.gif]  [Image: Arizona_flag_32w.gif]
MY CURRENT MUSTANGS
updating
Reply

#8


If I wasn't concerned about the state of our world right now Id be more comfortable dropping money into a car, but I don't like the way our world is functioning, it makes me nervous. :)
[/quote]

I know what you mean, I can only hope the next couple years go by quickly. I'm not sure how much more of our "ridiculous government" I can take. It was supposed to be, Of the People, By the People, For the People. Not for the select few! Who need to come down out of the Ivory Towers and live in the everyday world. Oh but they're above US! Funny if you read the Constitution carefully, this sort of Ludicrousness is exactly what the "Constitution" was meant to avoid!
I to worry about spending money, (even though I love my cars). That I might need somewhere else, when I know I can never get back what I've invested. Just some food for thought. SCo_hmmthink JTS 71 Mach1
"We built these cars to drive the "HELL" out of them, not to be museum pieces!"  Carroll Shelby

2008 Mustang V6 5 speed "Diablo Sport Predator" tuner, 87 octane tune. WOW!
1994 Ford F150 Shortbed
1986 Honda 450 Rebel
1995 Honda Pacific Coast
1989 Jacobra / Jag xjs
Reply

#9
(07-08-2014, 12:02 PM)JTS71 Mach1 Wrote: If I wasn't concerned about the state of our world right now Id be more comfortable dropping money into a car, but I don't like the way our world is functioning, it makes me nervous. :)

I know what you mean, I can only hope the next couple years go by quickly. I'm not sure how much more of our "ridiculous government" I can take. It was supposed to be, Of the People, By the People, For the People. Not for the select few! Who need to come down out of the Ivory Towers and live in the everyday world. Oh but they're above US! Funny if you read the Constitution carefully, this sort of Ludicrousness is exactly what the "Constitution" was meant to avoid!
I to worry about spending money, (even though I love my cars). That I might need somewhere else, when I know I can never get back what I've invested. Just some food for thought. SCo_hmmthink JTS 71 Mach1
[/quote]
On the positive, when your heads down A§§ up working on something you love the worlds problems seem to dissapear,thats why the lord gave us muscle carsBiggrin
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#10
Amen! It's all about perspective! It's just hard to remember that sometimes. JTS 71 Mach1
"We built these cars to drive the "HELL" out of them, not to be museum pieces!"  Carroll Shelby

2008 Mustang V6 5 speed "Diablo Sport Predator" tuner, 87 octane tune. WOW!
1994 Ford F150 Shortbed
1986 Honda 450 Rebel
1995 Honda Pacific Coast
1989 Jacobra / Jag xjs
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