THOUGHTS ON UPGRADES
#1
I have a 69 that came w a 2v, I bought it will a 4v carb and mild cam. First, I have a 4v clevland with fmx in a 72 ranchero, I bought for the motor years ago.
I want to put it in my car with a shaker assy. The other upgrade is to the brakes. I definatly want to put front power disks, and perhaps disks on the rear as well.
This car is pretty much all original, and pretty clean, won some shows, but not a total restoration. I bought it to drive. I plan to save all the take off parts, and can not afford to buy another car, so I want to make mine a nice driver that still merits showing.
What do you guys think?
Dave
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#2


I personally lean toward originality, but with that said the general consensus is that Mustangs were meant to be personalized. The 69 Mach 1's appear to be very sought after now since it was the first year of the Mach 1's, so IMHO originality would help with the future value, but if that is not your concern I say do it up the way you want.

Is the tranny in it now also an FMX?
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#3


First off is the engine category in my humble opinion the Cleveland is far off a mile from the Windsor but to each his own.
Back in the early eighties when I obtained my first 1970 Mach 1 mustang with a 4V Cleveland, It was old knowledge "according to Pat Ganahl the Ford Bible author on "Ford Performance ISBN: 0-931472-05-9, (page 34), : Quote: "Given the existance of the 351 Cleveland Ford engine plus all the specialty parts available to make it go faster than it does, the question of building a ful race 351 Windsor sounds almost silly. For the amount of money you'd spend on the Windsor, including having non-available parts custom made, you could buy at least a couple of Clevelands that would run circles around it."

He suggests that the Windsor engine just doesnt have that many add on horsepower options to really make it a viable candidate for real power, however, after browsing around the hotrod catalogs and internet these days it seems that because the Clevelands were only around for 4 years and the Windsor was produced by the millions, many parts producers are waking up to that fact and are making add on components.

Me: Well I am a die hard 4V Cleveland man all the way: This engine was made to run and breathe. It was developed to run hard from the start. With a few oiling mods it will run hard all day long and I can still remember my racing days in high school when I saved my hard earned cash up and had my Cleveland sleeper engine built up and out of about 300 street races, I was only beat by two cars, A 454 chevelle high boy runing nitrous, and a transam with a belt driven blower sticking out of his hood by at least a foot.....lol

That Cleveland engine was and in my opinion still is one beautiful "MID SIZED" engine. Your engine being a 1972 model will most likely be the lower compression ratio "Open Chambered heads" that will not produce the horsepower you may want. The closed chambered quench type off a 1970 model Cleveland will serve you better.(73.9-76.9cc) as compared to th 1970&71 4vheads which were (61.3-64.3cc). If you are running a 4 speed with high rpm intakeon it , then I would run a 4v quench head set, if you are running that FMX in it then the 2v Cleveland heads may serve you better for more mid range power bands usage.

Now since you show your car, the die hard fans want to see the Windsor in your engine bay. It is argueable whether it lessens the value of the car or not since the Cleveland is a great engine. Its sort of the same thing with placing a Ford 429 Thunderjet (T-Bird powerplant) engine in it since they never came this way, Some think that its sacriligious to do so. I say make it yours.
Dont worry about others unless there is some small chance that you will wish to profit from the sale of the car and we all know that originality is best for resale....... in many or most cases.

Would you buy a pastel colored Mach 1?
Would you buy a Mach 1 that had the entire interior changed out with cloth seats out of a Grenada or modified to look like a candy stripped pimp mobile? I believe its that first glancing judgement on the car that disuades us from pursuit of a purchase on one simply because it is not original.
Most of us I dare say would pass on it because we know that the car has been chopped up too much.
I think that most likely that the closer to original you remain in spirit, with car values going up, then the higher a resale price you will be able to get......

Now the options: That shaker was the first thing I bought for my newest car. It was not original to that particular car, but it was a Factory option for that year and make and model of that car. The same can be said of say adding a rare map light assembly or fold down rear seat assembly, or tilt steering column, in dash tachometer, or even a Detriot Locker with dragpack and added oil cooler and original in dash factory A/C all of which I am working on to obtain. It is my belief that these options can add value to the car.

At 47 years old....I am not about to have a car without my A/C as I only cruise around at posted speed limits these days and dont need the tickets from the cops. Again: Its all about the fun of building it any how you see fit.Thmbsup






After you first glance at my engine bay you may not notice it but it has a Windsor shaker assembly that I stupidly bought without knowing the differences between teh Cleveland shaker and the rare Windsor shaker assembly. Secondly, I added A/C and have only a few more items like hoses and a charge left to complete on it......(but its all Ford original) and not that cheap looking aftermarket factory air system with those cheap looking A/C registers that belong better in some RV.....lol

Maybe sometime this year I will be able to drve this car for the first time.
I have owned it since last October and never driven it not one inch yet>>>>>>Cry

Good luck with your show car....My pig still needs more lipstick.....lol


Attached Files Image(s)
   
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#4
As stated twice above - it is your to personalize.

Like the Pappa in "Fiddler on the Roof" - They're both right.

I lean towards originality.

I am a Cleveland die-hard.

Ah the quandary. What type of shows do you show it in and what type of class do you want to continue to show it in. Since the 69 and 70 are the same basic style (although I love the 69), the 351C will look right at home and "factory" in your car and most will not know the difference. The Cleveland is now more expensive to build but still gives more return for investment than the Windsor. By all means save everything factory that you take off.

Add the disc brakes front and rear. The car will show well. All of those upgrades can be done to look factory without doing anything that cannot be returned to factory latter on. If I came by and saw a clean 1969 with a 351C under the hood and four wheel disc all done in a super sanitary execution, I would stop to specifically talk to the owner and commend him on his taste.

A final warning though: I have never been normal Dodgy
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#5
Thanks Guys,
My thoughts are that since I already own the cleveland, a fresh rebuild that I have a few grand into,ready to bolt in, for the cost of a set of headers, it has msd ignition, and I am not sure what the year of the heads are, I am going to look today. I am watching Mecum auctions and they made a comment that a well done muscle car will have been upgraded to 4 wheel disks.
I have not taken it to a show, am going to a local event, but just to look.
The windser has low miles, so I am not in a hurry, maybe I will put some after market heads on the windser for now,after brakes.
Dave

Here is the engine compartment, factory air and power steering,
   
   
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#6
Very nice looking car Dave.

Definitely hard to mess with a complete package.
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#7
Nice looking Mach! Even got traction bars.
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#8


WOW;
If mine looked that good id just be happy and drive the crap out of it till the tires fell off.....lol

Awesome job.
Suggestions to add on:
Oil cooler, tilt steering, fold down rear seat assembly, or rare map light, rare trunk light, rare under hood light, sound proofing.....

SCo_hmmthink
The engine looks so good Im not sure I would touch it if its not broken....SSig_goodjob

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#9
Ok, I just got my first upgrade, a posi rearend, 3.87 ,Detriot,( ebay) with disk brakes, I figure, I am going to build my car the way I want if I could have ordered it from the factory, might have to change gears, but will wait till I finish with motor and drive. Anyone know how many changes you can have to show a car, and stay in original class? for some reason, I thought 11 modifications and it was in the modified class.
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#10
I have been getting the parts together for my car. I bought a set of 69 heads, they have had large chevy valves installed and I have done a mild polish and going to port match them.I plan to get a chasis dyno to set my base line. Hopefull after the holidays, I will change out the heads, and instal a MSD ignition system. I took bosses down on exhaust, and reshaped the intake. I am hoping for 25% more HP.
I have the power brakes for all 4 wheels, they will be the winter project, with the posi rear end.
Masterblaster, If you want to get a cleveland shaker, I would be interested in windser oneRolleyes.


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